Vinyl Audio

Music => Vinyl Grooves => Topic started by: BSD2000 on February 15, 2012, 07:08:10 PM

Title: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: BSD2000 on February 15, 2012, 07:08:10 PM
The idea of a recommended labels list was brought up by another member, but I thought I'd try a different angle and first start a list of record labels to avoid. I will try to keep the first post updated as the list gets longer and new items are added.

Record Labels to Avoid:
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: lshin80 on February 16, 2012, 06:35:54 AM
4. Simply Vinyl. Most LPs sourced from bad digital masters.
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: GoodVinylLover on February 16, 2012, 08:01:57 AM
Good idea  ;)

Tell me... what about Music On Vinyl? I have just recorded 2 needledrops:

Billie Jean (Thriller 1982 Holland edition) DR16

VS
Billie Jean (Thriller 2009 Music On Vinyl re-issue) DR12


BTW, I have just found out that on the MOV version the channels have been exchanged!  :o How could this be... :-\
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: GoodVinylLover on February 16, 2012, 08:11:43 AM
BTW, I have just found out that on the MOV version the channels have been exchanged!  :o How could this be... :-\

I quote myself because I just realised that the channels haven't been exchanged really, but the "hee-hee-hee" (0:05) sounds on the opposite channel. I don't know why they've done that to the song >:(

Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: lshin80 on February 16, 2012, 02:06:55 PM
BTW, I have just found out that on the MOV version the channels have been exchanged!  :o How could this be... :-\

I quote myself because I just realised that the channels haven't been exchanged really, but the "hee-hee-hee" (0:05) sounds on the opposite channel. I don't know why they've done that to the song >:(
Strange. I own a few  MOV reissues and they're very good. Jeff Beck - Blow By Blow is better than the original USA pressing that I've downloaded in 24 bit 96kHz FLAC for comparison: my MOV pressing sounds more focused. Santana and Santana III are also great sounding.
Looking on the MOV website, you can see that Thriller is remastered. Looking better, I've noticed now that some of their reissues are remastered, but that's a minor part of their catalogue. I still wonder what is the point or the reason for the remastering...maybe the 2 tracks masters weren't available?
However, my MOV copies are not remastered, and I feel I can recommend them.
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: BSD2000 on February 16, 2012, 11:27:20 PM
BTW, I have just found out that on the MOV version the channels have been exchanged!  :o How could this be... :-\

I quote myself because I just realised that the channels haven't been exchanged really, but the "hee-hee-hee" (0:05) sounds on the opposite channel. I don't know why they've done that to the song >:(

In some instances, if the vinyl is going to be remastered and the original 2" 24-track master tape is available, the engineer may miss some of the production notes and pan the tracks incorrectly when mixing down to a new 2-track master. Or maybe the production notes were missing and the engineer tried to guess how the tracks were paned.
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: BSD2000 on February 16, 2012, 11:43:03 PM
Good idea  ;)

Tell me... what about Music On Vinyl? I have just recorded 2 needledrops:

Billie Jean (Thriller 1982 Holland edition) (http://belenhernandez.com/needledrops/Billie Jean 1982 Holland pressing.mp3) [DR16]
VS
Billie Jean (Thriller 2009 Music On Vinyl re-issue) (http://belenhernandez.com/needledrops/Billie Jean 2009 Music On Vinyl reissue.mp3) [DR12]

BTW, I have just found out that on the MOV version the channels have been exchanged!  :o How could this be... :-\

Welcome to the Forum!

There is a big difference between those two samples. The MOV sample sounds very dynamic, with good separation of the instruments, but it's hard to tell if the audio has been 'enhanced' by MOV during the remastering since the Holland pressing sounds a bit more natural in the tonal balance and dynamics.

I don't have an original pressing to compare to since the three copies I have are all '25th anniversary' reissues. I'll have to record a sample and see which channel the 'hee-hee-hee' is panned to.  :)
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: lshin80 on February 17, 2012, 06:49:44 AM
http://www.musicangle.com/album.php?id=903 (http://www.musicangle.com/album.php?id=903)
Why using a digital master (even if good) if you can use a perfect analogue master?  ???
This make me feel doubtful about the others MOV reissues...
  :-\
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: GoodVinylLover on February 17, 2012, 11:30:58 AM
Good idea  ;)

Tell me... what about Music On Vinyl? I have just recorded 2 needledrops:


 [DR16]
VS

 [DR12]

BTW, I have just found out that on the MOV version the channels have been exchanged!  :o How could this be... :-\

Welcome to the Forum!

There is a big difference between those two samples. The MOV sample sounds very dynamic, with good separation of the instruments, but it's hard to tell if the audio has been 'enhanced' by MOV during the remastering since the Holland pressing sounds a bit more natural in the tonal balance and dynamics.

I don't have an original pressing to compare to since the three copies I have are all '25th anniversary' reissues. I'll have to record a sample and see which channel the 'hee-hee-hee' is panned to.  :)


I think the "hee-hee-hee" was originally located on the right channel. I recorded 2 more needle drops of this song:

Billie Jean (Thriller 1982 Japan pressing)


Billie Jean (2008 Thriller 25)


Thanks for the welcome  8)
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: BSD2000 on February 18, 2012, 03:55:35 PM
Good idea  ;)

Tell me... what about Music On Vinyl? I have just recorded 2 needledrops:

Billie Jean (Thriller 1982 Holland edition) (http://belenhernandez.com/needledrops/Billie Jean 1982 Holland pressing.mp3) [DR16]
VS
Billie Jean (Thriller 2009 Music On Vinyl re-issue) (http://belenhernandez.com/needledrops/Billie Jean 2009 Music On Vinyl reissue.mp3) [DR12]

BTW, I have just found out that on the MOV version the channels have been exchanged!  :o How could this be... :-\

Welcome to the Forum!

There is a big difference between those two samples. The MOV sample sounds very dynamic, with good separation of the instruments, but it's hard to tell if the audio has been 'enhanced' by MOV during the remastering since the Holland pressing sounds a bit more natural in the tonal balance and dynamics.

I don't have an original pressing to compare to since the three copies I have are all '25th anniversary' reissues. I'll have to record a sample and see which channel the 'hee-hee-hee' is panned to.  :)


I think the "hee-hee-hee" was originally located on the right channel. I recorded 2 more needle drops of this song:

Billie Jean (Thriller 1982 Japan pressing)
http://belenhernandez.com/needledrops/BillieJean1982Japan.mp3 (http://belenhernandez.com/needledrops/BillieJean1982Japan.mp3)

Billie Jean (2008 Thriller 25)
http://belenhernandez.com/needledrops/BillieJean2008Thriller25.mp3 (http://belenhernandez.com/needledrops/BillieJean2008Thriller25.mp3)

Thanks for the welcome  8)

I don't feel so bad. My 25th anniversary pressing of Thriller has similar sibilance problems like yours. I'll have to keep my eye out for an original pressing.

Firefox or Opera
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: BSD2000 on March 02, 2012, 08:40:55 PM
How about Sony Legacy vinyl? I picked up a Steve Vai LP reissue and it sounds thin, compressed and squashed. It's the only album I have that's pressed by Sony Legacy, so I can't comment on how good or bad their quality is.

Anyone else have any experience with Sony Legacy?
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: lshin80 on March 03, 2012, 07:28:32 AM
How about Sony Legacy vinyl? I picked up a Steve Vai LP reissue and it sounds thin, compressed and squashed. It's the only album I have that's pressed by Sony Legacy, so I can't comment on how good or bad their quality is.

Anyone else have any experience with Sony Legacy?

I've got the 2010 Sony Legacy reissue of Jimi Hendrix's "Are You Experienced", remastered from the original analog tapes by Eddie Kramer and George Marino at Sterling Sound. It's great, with a powerful and huge rock-solid sound, and not compressed at all, with the drums standing out of the mix. My copy is the USA version, thus it should have been pressed at RTI, but I'm not sure about that, since there's no indication on the record.
However I don't have any other Sony Legacy LP, so I can't comment on their overall quality.
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: Danny on March 12, 2012, 10:36:09 AM
MOV seem to be a really mixed bunch.. I just picked up a copy of Bowies Heathen which is pretty flat and undynamic.. Yet a release of Opeths Blackwater Park I have is superb with subtlety in the vocal and percussion that I never picked up from the CD.. Pulps Common People is another horrible release from them..

Southern Lords -  Earth is my first buy from the label.. Very impressed - superb dynamics...

All my K Scope releases have been superb.. (Steve Wilson solo -Porcupine Tree)


Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: GoodVinylLover on May 06, 2012, 12:43:19 PM
I don't feel so bad. My 25th anniversary pressing of Thriller has similar sibilance problems like yours. I'll have to keep my eye out for an original pressing.

Yesterday a bought a very well-kept copy of Thriller at "Fira del disc de Barcelona". Again, Holland edition. I have several copies of this album but I could not resist to buy this one because it is really in mint condition :o and after all it's the largest selling LP of all time. What more can I ask for for only 5€ ($6.50) I have just made a video on which I showcase a piece of my current system and, of course, the LP. I hope you enjoy it. BTW, the sound has been recorded with an external microphone:

Watch in 720p!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8M3uFuzuzY
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: BSD2000 on May 07, 2012, 02:10:30 AM
I don't feel so bad. My 25th anniversary pressing of Thriller has similar sibilance problems like yours. I'll have to keep my eye out for an original pressing.

Yesterday a bought a very well-kept copy of Thriller at "Fira del disc de Barcelona". Again, Holland edition. I have several copies of this album but I could not resist to buy this one because it is really in mint condition :o and after all it's the largest selling LP of all time. What more can I ask for for only 5€ ($6.50) I have just made a video on which I showcase a piece of my current system and, of course, the LP. I hope you enjoy it. BTW, the sound has been recorded with an external microphone:

Watch in 720p!

Michael Jackson - Billie Jean (Vinyl) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8M3uFuzuzY#ws)

Wow, that sounds nice! No sibilance problem at all, nice clean highs and punchy bass. Those Sony ES speakers are really unusual and rare. Sounds good!   8)

I've been itching to make a live recording of my living room system, just to see how it would turn out. Maybe this week some time...
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: lshin80 on May 07, 2012, 07:33:46 AM
You can always rely on Dutch pressings.
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: GoodVinylLover on May 07, 2012, 11:00:35 AM
Of course I don't mind BSD2000  ;)

BTW, I own these speakers since 1989/90 and have given me nothing but joy  :D

PS: You can see a bit more of my Sony speakers on my new YT video (Steely Dan's Black Cow) and I also added 2 pics to
the gallery (http://www.vinylaudio.net/forum/index.php?action=media)  ;D
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: BSD2000 on May 09, 2012, 12:40:54 AM
I was flipping through my records today and pulled out a few Sony Legacy reissues, namely the Hendrix BBC sessions and Are You Experienced LP and had a listen. Both sounded absolutely horrible and both were pressed by RTI.  >:(

I also listened to the Led Zepplin's Mothership box set, pressed by RTI and it was unlistenable. Zero bass, compressed midrange and highs. I could only take 20 seconds at a time. :(

It seems like Sony Legacy uses a number of pressing plants with some of the latest pressings being done at RTI. One of the tell-tale signs that it was pressed at RTI is the heavy red/pink plastic record sleeve, which looks like it was heat sealed while the record was inside the sleeve. The first record in the BBC Session album was actually damaged by the heat sealer to the point where it was phsyically attached (welded) to the sleeve on the edge! That wedge of the record when played has a 'swoosh' type of sound from the damage.
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: lshin80 on May 09, 2012, 12:34:39 PM
I was flipping through my records today and pulled out a few Sony Legacy reissues, namely the Hendrix BBC sessions and Are You Experienced LP and had a listen. Both sounded absolutely horrible and both were pressed by RTI.  >:(

It seems like Sony Legacy uses a number of pressing plants with some of the latest pressings being done at RTI. One of the tell-tale signs that it was pressed at RTI is the heavy red/pink plastic record sleeve, which looks like it was heat sealed while the record was inside the sleeve. The first record in the BBC Session album was actually damaged by the heat sealer to the point where it was phsyically attached (welded) to the sleeve on the edge! That wedge of the record when played has a 'swoosh' type of sound from the damage.

I've got the 2010 sony Legacy reissue of Are You Experienced. Not the European Version by Music On Vinyl but the U.S. version. Pink plastic record sleeve, on the deadwax it reads:
STERLING (stamped)
8869762395 1-A (hand writed)
18763.1(3)... (hand writed)
There's a bit of vinyl peeling on the center hole, and the surface looks not very clean with some stains. Actually my copy sounds very nice. Not compressed, powerful drums and clean sounding, way better than the previous CD reissues.
Either mine is a lucky copy or my ears are totally wrong. :-\ :D
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: BSD2000 on May 09, 2012, 04:04:37 PM
I've got the 2010 sony Legacy reissue of Are You Experienced. Not the European Version by Music On Vinyl but the U.S. version. Pink plastic record sleeve, on the deadwax it reads:
STERLING (stamped)
8869762395 1-A (hand writed)
18763.1(3)... (hand writed)
There's a bit of vinyl peeling on the center hole, and the surface looks not very clean with some stains. Actually my copy sounds very nice. Not compressed, powerful drums and clean sounding, way better than the previous CD reissues.
Either mine is a lucky copy or my ears are totally wrong. :-\ :D


My 'Are You Experienced?' album has the same deadwax info as yours, so I'm not sure why my copy sounds so bad. Hmm....

To compare, I have a Hendrix compilation LP, pressed in Japan that has 'Are You Experienced?' on it and it sounds much better than the Sony Legacy reissue. I'll make a recording later today of both so you can have a listen.

I attached some pictures of the sleeve; it looks like your copy is damage free.
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: lshin80 on May 10, 2012, 06:44:23 AM
Mmhhh...where did you get your copy? I could think that export copies are better but that doesn't explain why all the reviews by all customers on Acoustic Sounds are positive for all the Hendrix reissues by Sony Legacy:
http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/65679/Jimi_Hendrix-Are_You_Experienced-180_Gram_Vinyl_Record (http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/65679/Jimi_Hendrix-Are_You_Experienced-180_Gram_Vinyl_Record)
http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/65680/Jimi_Hendrix-Axis_Bold_As_Love-180_Gram_Vinyl_Record (http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/65680/Jimi_Hendrix-Axis_Bold_As_Love-180_Gram_Vinyl_Record)
http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/65677/Jimi_Hendrix-Electric_Ladyland-180_Gram_Vinyl_Record (http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/65677/Jimi_Hendrix-Electric_Ladyland-180_Gram_Vinyl_Record)
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: BSD2000 on May 11, 2012, 04:50:33 AM
Mmhhh...where did you get your copy? I could think that export copies are better but that doesn't explain why all the reviews by all customers on Acoustic Sounds are positive for all the Hendrix reissues by Sony Legacy:
http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/65679/Jimi_Hendrix-Are_You_Experienced-180_Gram_Vinyl_Record (http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/65679/Jimi_Hendrix-Are_You_Experienced-180_Gram_Vinyl_Record)
http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/65680/Jimi_Hendrix-Axis_Bold_As_Love-180_Gram_Vinyl_Record (http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/65680/Jimi_Hendrix-Axis_Bold_As_Love-180_Gram_Vinyl_Record)
http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/65677/Jimi_Hendrix-Electric_Ladyland-180_Gram_Vinyl_Record (http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/65677/Jimi_Hendrix-Electric_Ladyland-180_Gram_Vinyl_Record)


Hmm... I picked up my copy at Double Decker Records near my home.

I did try something that did improve the sound - I cleaned the Sony re-issue with Gruv Glide, which did help clean up the sound. Here's a sample of both:

Jimi Hendrix - 'Are You Experienced?' - Sony Legacy 2010 reissue:
No longer available

Jimi Hendrix - 'Are You Experienced?' - Japanese OBI pressing:
No longer available

The Gruv Glide helped; and I can hear the bass and drums better. I have no idea what the white stains are, seems like a reaction to the pink plastic sleeve. The Gruv Glide did clean most of it off and improve the sound enough to make the Sony reissue worth listening too.  8)
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: GoodVinylLover on May 11, 2012, 12:50:56 PM
So Gruv Glide does work... last year I cleaned several records with this liquid and when I played those records the stylus picked up a very thin film :( I know what you may be thinking, but I don't think I applied too much product. I don't know if this would have harmed the stylus but I ended giving up on using Gruv Glide.

I have... (let me think) 3 Sony Legacy issues. One of them doesn't sound good at all :'( (It is a white record BTW), the second one has a quite acceptable sound though It suffers from sibilance problems at some points, and finally the third one does provide a good sound  :D
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: BSD2000 on June 03, 2012, 07:17:29 AM
I don't feel so bad. My 25th anniversary pressing of Thriller has similar sibilance problems like yours. I'll have to keep my eye out for an original pressing.

http://www.vinylaudio.net/forum/music/MJ.mp3 (http://www.vinylaudio.net/forum/music/MJ.mp3)

Looks like I found the pressing plant responsible for the terrible sounding 25th Anniversary MJ 'Thriller' picture disc:
(Skip ahead to 4:20)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVrM-dEXQ3A#

The cutting engineer admits that they use a CD as the source and that his job is to 'make the vinyl record sound as close to the CD as possible'. Umm, I don't think so...   ::)
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: lshin80 on June 03, 2012, 07:50:40 AM
And what about the Columbia audiophile pressing, half-speed mastered, extended range recording series?
I was gifted a 1980 copy of Supertramp "Crime of the Century" from this series. I was very happy until I read the insert explaining the mastering process...they converted the analog master tapes to digital, and then again to analog to create the laquer master!
They say the reason behind that is that digital has better frequency respoce, better signal-to-noise ratio, less harmonic distortion and almost no wow and flutter. And I could agree with that, but...44.1kHz?!? ???
Come on!!! That's ridiculous...at that sampling frequency there's too much loss!  :-X
I guess back in the days they thought that to be state of the art, but to me it's a disgrace. I would have tolerate 96 kHz or better, but loosing so much signal details to me makes the effort of half-speed mastering totally useless.
Am I wrong, or Mobile Fidelity uses half-speed mastering, and stays 100% analog?
What do you think of this Columbia series?
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: BSD2000 on June 06, 2012, 07:05:53 AM
I have three or four Columbia 1/2 speed mastered series LP's and I'm not impressed - not as much as I am with every MFSL pressing I own. To me, they sound very similar to Nautilus pressings, which have an overall 'dark' sound; like the highs were rolled off of the midrange was artificially 'thickened'. I think if you can find them cheap enough, they might be worth buying. Most of the Columbia 1/2 speed LP's I own I picked up for $10 or less. I did pay $20 for a Pretenders 1/2 speed Columbia LP which sounded good, but it still had a 'syrupy' type of sound in the bass and mid range with slightly rolled off highs. If they did use 44.1k digital audio as the source, how the heck did they slow it down to 1/2 speed to cut the master disc?  ;)

I agree - if you are going to cut a master with digital audio, 96K/24bit should be the minimum resolution to use. A CD as the source is a complete waste of time.

MFSL pressings are always impressive and a joy to listen to. The bass is always deep, powerful and effortless. The midrange is pure, life like with a 3D sound stage and the highs are clean, clear, detailed, extended, airy and sweet.

As far as I know, all of the original MFSL reissues were cut at 1/2 speed from original 2-track master tapes going through a 100% tube driven mixer and cutting lathe. 100% analog, end to end.
Mobile Fidelity later tweaked the signal chain and called it the GAIN system (http://www.vxm.com/21R.46.html). They also insist on using first generation master tapes - no copies, running @ 30 or 15ips. Pure analog heaven.  8)

Supposedly the Silver series MFSL pressings were mastered and cut on an all tube system (although not the same system used to cut the standard MFSL releases), but pressed by RTI.
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: lshin80 on June 06, 2012, 07:27:22 AM
The Columbia "audiophile" pressing of Crime of the century left me unimpressed. It sounds quite ordinary, a bit thin. Maybe it's just I don't like Supertramp, but I feel the digital conversion took out too much. I definitely like better a lively, raw and "imperfect" analog recording, rather than a dry, sterile, "refined" digital recording.

What about the Nimbus Supercut series?
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: BSD2000 on June 07, 2012, 09:58:22 PM
The Columbia "audiophile" pressing of Crime of the century left me unimpressed. It sounds quite ordinary, a bit thin. Maybe it's just I don't like Supertramp, but I feel the digital conversion took out too much. I definitely like better a lively, raw and "imperfect" analog recording, rather than a dry, sterile, "refined" digital recording.

What about the Nimbus Supercut series?

I actually don't own any Nimbus Supercuts and I've yet to come across one in my crate digs. I'll have to keep my eye out for one.
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: lshin80 on June 08, 2012, 07:07:21 AM
I actually don't own any Nimbus Supercuts and I've yet to come across one in my crate digs. I'll have to keep my eye out for one.
I've got a 24 bit / 96 kHz rip of a Nimbus Supercut reissue of Wish You Were Here by Pink Floyd, and it sounds nice to me, even if I don't have no vinyl pressing to compare.
They seem to have mixed reviews:
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/archive/index.php/t-211079.html (http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/archive/index.php/t-211079.html)
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: BSD2000 on July 29, 2012, 06:47:20 AM
I don't feel so bad. My 25th anniversary pressing of Thriller has similar sibilance problems like yours. I'll have to keep my eye out for an original pressing.

Yesterday a bought a very well-kept copy of Thriller at "Fira del disc de Barcelona". Again, Holland edition. I have several copies of this album but I could not resist to buy this one because it is really in mint condition :o and after all it's the largest selling LP of all time. What more can I ask for for only 5€ ($6.50) I have just made a video on which I showcase a piece of my current system and, of course, the LP. I hope you enjoy it. BTW, the sound has been recorded with an external microphone:

Watch in 720p!

Michael Jackson - Billie Jean (Vinyl) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8M3uFuzuzY#ws)

A few days ago I picked up a mint American pressing of Thriller for $1. Here's a sample:

[No Longer Available]

It sounds much better than the 25th anniversary reissues I have. I'm still on the lookout for an import pressing.  :D
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: lshin80 on July 29, 2012, 02:03:51 PM
I've got a Dutch pressing of "Off the Wall" and it sounds pretty nice.
Title: Re: Record labels to avoid!
Post by: lshin80 on July 31, 2012, 12:23:08 PM
Michael Fremer's thought on this subject:

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/reissue-labels-avoid-and-some-best-proceed-caution (http://www.analogplanet.com/content/reissue-labels-avoid-and-some-best-proceed-caution)

Even Sundazed!  :(

Users found this pages searching for: